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Post by Bobby on Dec 9, 2018 13:06:15 GMT -5
A few things that define what is considered a traditional Appalachian Dulcimore.
These attributes were found across all lines of the early Traditional Appalachian Dulcimore world as we know. Whether hourglass, teardrop, box shaped, elliptical, diamond shaped etc., or from Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio etc., all Traditional Appalachian Dulcimores have all these included in their design:
Staple Frets- Frets made of staples, fence nails, broom wire, bent wire or nails are considered traditional.
Non-geared tuners-zither tuning pins, violin style tuning pegs, eye bolts, and other hand made non-geared tuners/tuning pins are considered traditional.
Diatonic- no additional frets, diatonic by definition is absent of chromatic influence.
Full length Fret Board- is full length of sound box.
Appalachian Woods- The Traditional Appalachian Dulcimore must be made of wood native to the Appalachian mountain region.
No wound strings- Although there were wound strings around when the original Dulcimores were first coming into existance, there isn't enough evidence to prove they were in widespread use.
Fiddle Sides-- It's hard to believe this one would not be a qualification. Nearly every Traditional Dulcimore you view has them.
NOTE: We know that in all locations, there's always an example or two that lacked one or more of the things we have listed above. For instance, I just viewed a Virginia example from the late 1800's from the L. Allen Smith book that didn't have fiddle sides. They were smooth sides that were nailed on. And we have probably all seen vintage instruments here and there that maybe had an extra fret, even a chromatic or two. So we won't reject those as being traditional if you're making a replica. We're also working on state specific characteristics and areas within different states. So we won't reject differences from the one offs or such, as long as it's a replica or reproduction we're ok with that. And, we also have a section we call Semi-Traditional where you can post your work if they don't meet every qualification. I've got plenty there myself!
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Post by dan on Dec 9, 2018 17:32:47 GMT -5
Looks good!
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Post by kenh on Dec 10, 2018 22:28:32 GMT -5
Looks good, Bobby. I'd quibble over the full-length fretboard as a defining Trad Dulcimer characteristic. If I remember, there are short fretboard instruments shown in L. Allen Smith's Catalogue of Pre-Revival Appalachian Dulcimers book.
I'd say that a raised central fretboard defines a dulcimer, compared to the Pennsylvania fretted zithers and similar ancestral instruments which have a thin (less than 1/4" high) fretboard, or just staple frets along the player's side of the top, not down the center of the top. That Mercer Museum replica that I built isn't technically a dulcimer -- it's a fretted zither.
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Post by Bobby on Dec 10, 2018 22:36:33 GMT -5
Looks good, Bobby. I'd quibble over the full-length fretboard as a defining Trad Dulcimer characteristic. If I remember, there are short fretboard instruments shown in L. Allen Smith's Pre-Revival... book. We might adjust the definition later. I seen a few in the Virginia collection with a longer fretboard than the body. Just trying to lay some defining ground rules for the Traditional section before we get rolling. |
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Post by dan on Dec 11, 2018 6:46:06 GMT -5
I don't recall any short fret board dulcimore in the Catalogue Ken. (I may have to look again) There is more of a difference than the "raised" fret board. The transitional pieces went from box zither to board zither. The board is the simple chordaphone with a sound box. The transition allowed the new pieces to have any shape sound box they wanted! If the fret board is "short" it is not technically a zither but rather a lute.
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Post by Bobby on Dec 11, 2018 7:16:51 GMT -5
I think what we have to look at concerning the defining qualities of the Traditional Appalachian dulcimore is the things that were done in multitude. For example the Ferrum College exhibit. I think I only remember one dulcimer with a fretboard longer than the body of the dulcimer. I remember seeing a dulcimer with a fretboard shorter than the body somewhere in an exhibit. I'm of the suspicion that some of those that didn't follow the norm, we perhaps made by folks like me, that enjoyed experimenting now and then.
We need to come to an agreement on the definition based on qualities that made up a high percentage. Because I think one could most likely find as many vintage dulcimers with extra frets as we could find with fretboards shorter than the body or longer than the body.
But that's not saying we would disqualify a member from posting if one of the members built a replica of one of the vintage dulcimers with a fretboard shorter or longer than the body.
But if we're going to have to draw the line somewhere.
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Post by dan on Dec 11, 2018 7:46:44 GMT -5
I think what we have to look at concerning the defining qualities of the Traditional Appalachian dulcimore is the things that were done in multitude. For example the Ferrum College exhibit. I think I only remember one dulcimer with a fretboard longer than the body of the dulcimer. I remember seeing a dulcimer with a fretboard shorter than the body somewhere in an exhibit. I'm of the suspicion that some of those that didn't follow the norm, we perhaps made by folks like me, that enjoyed experimenting now and then. We need to come to an agreement on the definition based on qualities that made up a high percentage. Because I think one could most likely find as many vintage dulcimers with extra frets as we could find with fretboards shorter than the body or longer than the body. But that's not saying we would disqualify a member from posting if one of the members built a replica of one of the vintage dulcimers with a fretboard shorter or longer than the body. But if we're going to have to draw the line somewhere. Agreed! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 8:39:50 GMT -5
I think what we have to look at concerning the defining qualities of the Traditional Appalachian dulcimore is the things that were done in multitude. For example the Ferrum College exhibit. I think I only remember one dulcimer with a fretboard longer than the body of the dulcimer. I remember seeing a dulcimer with a fretboard shorter than the body somewhere in an exhibit. I'm of the suspicion that some of those that didn't follow the norm, we perhaps made by folks like me, that enjoyed experimenting now and then. We need to come to an agreement on the definition based on qualities that made up a high percentage. Because I think one could most likely find as many vintage dulcimers with extra frets as we could find with fretboards shorter than the body or longer than the body. But that's not saying we would disqualify a member from posting if one of the members built a replica of one of the vintage dulcimers with a fretboard shorter or longer than the body. But if we're going to have to draw the line somewhere. You make a valid point about tinkerers. "I'm of the suspicion that some of those that didn't follow the norm, we perhaps made by folks like me, that enjoyed experimenting now and then." On a very early build I did the cut out 'yocky' peg head before I knew there was a yocky style/type peg head. I still do simple peg heads as I have little equipment to turn out the more ornate (beautiful) furniture. |
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Post by Bobby on Dec 11, 2018 9:41:21 GMT -5
Being from Virginia I think they should all have hollow fretboards with NO strum hollow! Lol!
Just kidding, but in all seriousness there's not but a few qualities that carry over from the different states and regions where we believe they began.
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Post by kenh on Dec 11, 2018 13:25:59 GMT -5
I was reading on the Leipzig (Germany) Musical Instrument Collection this morning about the difference (to them) between a Scheitholt and a Zither. They define the difference in the zither having a 'fingerboard' into which the staple frets were set; rather than the frets being just set into the top. I still see the central fretboard (more than a fingerboard) as a defining characteristic of dulcimers as distinct from fretted zithers or scheitholtze. If you're interested, the website is studia-instrumentorum.de/MUSEUM/zithern.htm Use Google translate to get the English. The instrument dimensions are to the nearest 1/2 millimeter, and you can build replicas of the four scheitholtz described there from the information given. |
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Post by Kevin on Dec 11, 2018 15:26:28 GMT -5
A few things that define what is considered a traditional Appalachian Dulcimore. Any photos, videos or audio must meet this criteria to be posted in the Traditional Appalachian Dulcimore section of the forum. Staple Frets- Frets made of staples, fence nails, broom wire, bent wire or nails are considered traditional. Non-geared tuners-zither tuning pins, violin style tuning pegs, eye bolts, and other hand made non-geared tuners/tuning pins are considers traditional. Diatonic- no additional frets, diatonic by definition is absent of chromatic influence. Full length Fret Board- is full length of sound box. A tuner question...would a Prichard replica fitted with Perfection pegs qualify? Aren’t they technically geared somehow? |
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Post by Bobby on Dec 11, 2018 16:36:51 GMT -5
A tuner question...would a Prichard replica fitted with Perfection pegs qualify? Aren’t they technically geared somehow? Hi and welcome Kevin! Yes technically it would be considered modern style with the geared perfection tuners. Just as the new dulcimer I built with nothing more than the 6.5 and 13.5 fret by our definition is considered modern, so that's why I posted it in the modern section. |
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Post by dan on Dec 12, 2018 6:53:17 GMT -5
Wow. I wrote this a year ago!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 7:04:32 GMT -5
dan , glad to see that you touched on wood. If every other aspect of one individual instrument is exact in adherence to the parameters set forth as traditional, is the use of non native wood a disqualifying factor for a traditional Appalachian dulcimore? Just asking for opinions while I have the chance to maybe learn something. Thanks, Sam
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Post by dan on Dec 12, 2018 7:46:30 GMT -5
dan , glad to see that you touched on wood. If every other aspect of one individual instrument is exact in adherence to the parameters set forth as traditional, is the use of non native wood a disqualifying factor for a traditional Appalachian dulcimore? Just asking for opinions while I have the chance to maybe learn something. Thanks, Sam Sam, all this is a work in progress. To "disqualify" for one aspect I don't know.... maybe we are looking for a general conscientious? (spelling) We haven't really touched on playing the pieces as of yet, interesting to hear if there is a norm for tunes? |
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Post by Bobby on Dec 12, 2018 10:41:05 GMT -5
Great writeup Dan.
It made my mind think a bit......
I think we may have to use the term: traditional style dulcimers.
Although I use some non-powered hand tools, I still use several electric power tools. I use a boiled linseed oil finish, but I apply it with German engineered klingspor wet/dry sandpaper that I'm pretty sure wasn't made way back then.
Shew! A whole lot to think about!
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Post by dan on Dec 16, 2018 9:01:21 GMT -5
One more thing... What we "know" from our history books was written in the moment of the revival. Every year we find new pieces and learn more and more about the makers. If there is one thing I "know" about the last two hundred years of tradition, we don't know all that much!!!
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Post by dan on Dec 16, 2018 9:06:18 GMT -5
One more thing... What we "know" from our history books was written in the moment of the revival. Every year we find new pieces and learn more and more about the makers. If there is one thing I "know" about the last two hundred years of tradition, we don't know all that much!!! This was after three hours of online research for the connection between the owners family and the maker of the Meadors piece! |
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Post by kenh on Dec 16, 2018 10:52:03 GMT -5
Dan's last sentence: "In short, nothing that wasn’t used two hundred years ago." does put a crimp in things, as Bobby mentions. Do we limit "Traditional Dulcimer" to only those made with hand tools or natural power tools (water/steam) from tree felling to stringing and playing? That sounds a bit severe.
Or do we embrace the "spirit" of things? Sandpaper was invented in Egypt in the 13th century or earlier. The first water-powered (straight blade) saw mill in the US was in Maine in 1623. The water/steam powered planing mill developed sometime in the next couple hundred years. The bandsaw was invented in 1808 England, the scrollsaw in 1829 Maine. From those "raw power" tools it's only a tiny short step to electric powered joiners, planers, saws, sanders, drills, etc. Does that short step really matter? I agree that laser cut anything, geared tuners and full-width frets are NOT Traditional!
I agree with indigenous woods as a Traditional Dulcimer qualification, along with a full length raised central fretboard, diatonic-only staple frets not set mean tone, and wood pegs or autoharp pin tuners.
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Post by dan on Dec 16, 2018 11:20:11 GMT -5
What tools used in the making of a piece doesn't change the finished Dulcimore. Each maker decides what tools marks to leave in and which one to take out. James Edward Thomas used rough sawn lumber from the saw mill. Even slivers to minimize working down panels! In the making of a traditional piece the elements of the piece are subject, not the meathod as they very widley from one maker to the next. No different from today. As for experimenting, even Thomas toyed with a sound post and scalloped fret board. This is the ecseption rather than the rule. What we should be looking into is the generalization of the traditional piece and what defines it, not what may or may not exclude it?
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Post by kenl on Dec 16, 2018 16:58:33 GMT -5
As for experimenting, even Thomas toyed with a sound post and scalloped fret board. This is the ecseption rather than the rule. Dan, are you saying that sound posts in Thomas dulcimers were not a standard item? My Thomas has two sound posts; one at about the 3rd fret and another around the 10th. I have not examined a great number of these dulcimers, but all I have examined have sound posts or glue spots where the sound posts should be. I suspect that some of those dulcimers lost the sound posts due to the hide glue giving way and rattling around inside the dulcimer. I have seen that in a couple of cases where the loose sound post was left inside. Perhaps Uncle Ed did not include sound posts in all his dulcimers, but I do not think they were experiments or exceptions. |
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Post by dan on Dec 16, 2018 17:04:59 GMT -5
Who else used then Ken?
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Post by kenl on Dec 16, 2018 17:15:22 GMT -5
Charles Napoleon Prichard. He placed one in the middle of his dulcimer fret board. All the Prichards I make have them. Kevin Messenger now includes them in his Prichards as well. He told me it makes a big difference in the sound from the first ones he made without the posts.
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Post by dan on Dec 16, 2018 17:28:05 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree that the sound post in the two makers pieces standardizes the practice as traditional.
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Post by kenl on Dec 16, 2018 19:58:25 GMT -5
I have no problem with that. I was not saying that a dulcimer has to have a sound post to be labeled "traditional." However, are you saying that a dulcimer with a sound post is outside of the tradition. If so, there go the Prichard and Thomas dulcimers from the traditional category.
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Post by dan on Dec 16, 2018 20:44:50 GMT -5
No not at all. We are trying to formulate some sort of consensus for the term "traditional". The sound post are not the "norm" as to general perimeters? If we list the norms, I don't believe post are listed.
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Post by Bobby on Dec 16, 2018 20:57:20 GMT -5
I think when we make a firm decision on which attributes MUST BE the unwavering qualities to be considered a traditional style dulcimore, we can make a list of other attributes that some traditional dulcimores also had.
I'm glad we're having this discussion though.
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Post by dan on Dec 16, 2018 21:03:16 GMT -5
Me too! I wonder if after we discuss this a while we do a vote on each item and those with enough votes gets added to the list?
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Post by Bobby on Dec 16, 2018 21:04:10 GMT -5
Me too! I wonder if after we discuss this a while we do a vote on each item and those with enough votes gets added to the list? Sounds great! |
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Post by kenl on Dec 17, 2018 10:39:58 GMT -5
No not at all. We are trying to formulate some sort of consensus for the term "traditional". The sound post are not the "norm" as to general perimeters? If we list the norms, I don't believe post are listed. Okay, I think I understand this now. Sound posts do not exclude an instrument from being traditional, but are not a requirement for being traditional. I do like the idea of voting on the norms. So far this has been a very good discussion. |
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